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Website suggestions/requests...

Since the web monkeys are all up in the place making changes this week how about some new functionality on the retail site instead of wasting time on the forums?


I would LOVE to be able to go to a product page and see a notice across the top like at amazon dot come that says "you purchased this product on January 15th 2014". 


Or how about not deleting product pages or making them disappear when something is out of stock? We can't even read or leave reviews for a product then. It's so random which product pages disappear and which don't. It's beyond annoying. 


How about improving the 'loves list' section so that we can categorize and set priorities or even make notes for ourselves? 


You guys obviously have all this time on your hands (the programmers not the mods) to waste on the forums which according to statistics is only 3% of your website traffic. 


How about doing some real work and making the site work better for purchasers? 








Re: Website suggestions/requests...

My husband is a programmer. I used to be one. The name has never bothered us or any of our friends. It's only an insult if you want it to be one. It was just a fun term. I didn't realize some people were so touchy about it. 


Perhaps you could just ignore it if it bothers you. 


They've done nothing to improve BT. Now it's hard to find posts and hard to know what is deemed off topic. Posts show up in multiple places forcing the need to wade through twice as many to read or find things. 


I mean no disrespect either but I'm really growing tired of people on BT that feel the need to scold other people. If you don't like something skip over it. 


"And please don't take my above comments as me trying to be a party pooper or judging in any way, I know nobody here is malicious or mean spirited in any way - we're all just being goofy and having fun - just hoping to offer a different perspective."


So why write three paragraphs about it and make something out of nothing? It was an innocent comment. 



Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Are you really taking issue with the concept of "being nice when asking for something" rather than telling the people you're asking to "do some real work" instead? Doesn't it make more sense to be courteous when you're making a request?


The only point I was trying to make is that it never hurts to show appreciation for the fact that they're trying (even if you don't think it succeeded - personally I don't like the Off Topic changes either, but it's not like they're doing it solely just to annoy you - obviously it's well intentioned), and if not that, then it's a good idea to consider being kind to people trying to do their jobs rather than reducing what they've done to nothing.


Like I said, I wasn't trying to say "HEY STOP BEING MEAN GUYS", I was offering a different perspective on how the people who work on the website may feel when being told the work they put in is just "wasting time". 


You made this thread assuming the developers would read it. For me, when reading it, I imagined how the person would feel to read a thread that was full of requests and things that we wanted...and punctuated with us telling them they're wasting their time and they weren't doing any real work. And I just, if I was that dev, I really wouldn't want to listen to these people.


I don't think I was scolding you, at least I hope not - but if it came across that way it certainly wasn't my intention. All I know is that when I say something insensitive, it always helps me when a friend points it out to me because even if I didn't intend it to come across that way it helps me be aware of it for the future. Again - I was just offering a different perspective.

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

If you read what I wrote that is not what I took issue with at all. 

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

i think that we are now at the point in life where we take politically correct too far!  no one would ever say a word if we always made sure that whatever comment wouldn't offend someone!! 

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

I think that's a bit of a cop out. Obviously there are basic rules of courtesy that we adhere to, we don't abuse each other, we don't curse, we try to be as polite as possible, don't we? That doesn't mean we can't say what we're thinking in fear of offending, it just means we try and consider our words before hand. I think that's a concept that's been in place for quite a while and so far I think it's worked out.

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Well there are lots of "nicknames" that are used for my job as well as many of the things I'm into. And I get called them and it doesn't bother me. They can only bother someone if that person lets them, unless it's said with malicious intent (which doesn't seem to be the case here).  So if the intent isn't meant to be abusive, where is the issue? Are you taking it that way on someone's behalf?


 Just trying to clarify because I find it confusing. Are you one of the programmers?  You mentioned you are not being judgemental but I am reading (perhaps incorrectly) that you are judging the intent of the OP. That is where my confusion lies I guess. 


Re: Website suggestions/requests...

My husband works in IT and he definitely finds the term "code monkey" offensive, which is why it's something I was aware of.


To use an example of intent vs effect - a kid in my class once referred to me as a g-0-0-k. He didn't mean it offensively, he was just ignorant and had parents who were equally ignorant. I didn't take offense from him - but I did let him know that it was an offensive term and that others who didn't know his intent, might take offense from that.


I didn't judge him - just offered a perspective on how someone else might feel.


That was my intention with my original post. If it didn't come across that way, then my communication skills clearly need some work.

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your thoughts, the additional insight is certainly helpful. Seems like because your husband is offended by it, it's sort of a trigger for you maybe?  But others wouldn't have the same response because everyone is different?


I call my hubby a wrench monkey because he's an awesome mechanic, I don't think it's one of his favorite terms but he doesn't mind it either.  Smiley Happy I get called geek and nerd because I help people with computers, and I am actually sort of proud of that. Smiley Happy   so like I said, all in the intent (which I see you get) and in the eye of the beholder. Smiley Happy

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Honestly, the "code monkey" thing was really just an aside - it wasn't the main point I was trying to make at all. I don't mind being called a nerd or geek either. I think context definitely matters, and you're right that I may have been triggered by it/was being oversensitive. But it was 1 comment in the larger point I was making so I'm not sure why it's being taken as the focus. Anyhoo.


The point I was really trying to make was, if I was the IT person, and I walked into a thread and this is what I saw:


"Hey web devs, stop wasting your time working on BT it is pointless since it's only 3 percent of your traffic and anyway the changes suck! How about doing some real work? Here is a list of things I want"


I'd probably be a little bit sad.


That's all.


Re: Website suggestions/requests...

I worked in IT for my entire career.  When I worked for a movie studio, the grips used to call us 'puter goons, and we called them a name I will not even mention here because I am sure someone will be offended.  None of us were offended by any of it though, and it was all done in good fun.  We also made a lot of friends outside of our areas of expertise because of the light-hearted teasing.  I can understand when teasing goes too far, but a certain amount of thick-skin is required when you choose to interact with other people.  Otherwise, you (a hypothetical you - not directed at anyone in particular and the fact that I feel like I have to say this is annoying in itself) may as well avoid everyone because I am sure that not everyone shares your every single view on everything in life.  

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

I can certainly agree with that. And context certainly plays a big part in how we take what other people say to us.


I always assume "you" and "us" and "we" is always a generalisation unless the person specifically indicates differently. It'd be exhausting else wise.

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Not sure how old your husband is but codemonkey dot com used to be a huge developers resource website. 



Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Okay, I'm not sure why we're belaboring this point because it was a 1 sentence comment in 3 paragraphs about what I was trying to say.


My husband is 27. I think it's great that you're not offended by it, but the truth is just because you're not offended by something doesn't mean that it's not offensive. Context also matters. I'm not offended by my friends calling me an "oriental" jokingly, but if somebody else did, I would be. Just because my friend doesn't mind it when people call him the N word doesn't mean that it's not offensive for a whole bunch of other people. Some women don't mind being called b-word, some do. Just because it doesn't offend you - doesn't mean it's not offensive.


From Wiki:

Code monkey may refer to:

Code monkey, a derogatory term for an unskilled programmer who is only able to perform trivial or repetitive computer programming tasks or a reference to a job that treats even experienced computer programmers in a way that trivializes their problem-solving abilities. Can also be used as a derogatory term to express "even a monkey could write this code", which is often resented by computer programmers as it trivializes the complexity of programming.


Obviously your experience with it differs. And that's fine. But it doesn't mean that your experience is universal.


Like I've said previously, I understand it was a joke. I will accept I may have even been oversensitive specifically to that comment. As others have pointed out, it's silly to be offended over everything. The only reason I even mentioned it was in the context of "When we ask for things, it is good to be nice and not insult the people we ask."


I had no idea this idea would be so controversial.


Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Sweetie you're the one belaboring and I'm really sick of your condescending cloaked in sugar passive aggressiveness. "I'm not sure why we're belaboring this point"... "but let me belabor some more". There I finished your sentence for you. 


You find it offensive I get it. I don't. Difference of opinion. I'm not going to stop using the term because you find it offensive. 


Context? I see you cherry picked your definition to suit your purposes. This was one of the first ones that came up for me. You know what's great about Wiki? If you don't like what it says you can just change it.  


Urban Dictionary

code monkey
An affectionate term for a specific kind of underpaid, overworked (often by volition), increasingly underappreciated indentured servant, otherwise known as a Software Programmer.


Derrived from the Latin-Greek "Codex" and the Obsolete-Japanese "Donkey Kong San"
"Socrates says we're all just expendable code monkeys, sitting here in the late Tokugawa period. . ."


"When we ask for things, it is good to be nice and not insult the people we ask." Really? I already stated that I didn't intend it as an insult. That is how you took it that's your problem not mine. 


I don't sugar coat my difference of opinion with back-handed insults. 


I suggest you re-read some of your responses and go Wiki the work hypocrite. 

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

i don't think its a cop out at all!  i'm not saying go out and call people names but just because you don't agree with something i've said/done/thought doesn't mean that i am a bully or offensive or don't care about other people.  


there is no way of knowing what will or will not offend someone (e.g web monkey offended you but does not offend the 20 programmers i currently know) unless you have a seat in their brain.  by addressing this in your post, you made the web monkey term the issue instead of what shiny was actually posting about - the fact that time and resources are spending time and money fixing issues that upset a few, instead of addressing issues that affect many (rouge issues, email issues, the war between sephora and canada)

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

I mean Canada... Smiley Wink

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

I agree Sparkle! In general, not just on this topic, I think being politically correct has gone too far. 


This is exactly what happened with the Kat Von D lipstick (name that I shall not mention just because it'll cause even more drama) being pulled from Sephora, and even in sports where everyone was urging the Washington Redskins to change their team name because it was offensive. They did a poll and majority of Native Americans do not find that name offensive, it's just politically correct people feeling like they have to "correct" everything. 


All I have to say is if the people we are supposedly making fun of (which no one is) aren't offended by it, then why would you be offended for them? I'm sorry if I offended anyone by posting this, but I've always felt that if it doesn't have to do with me, I should not get involved (unless I see a person beating up/stealing from someone else...or if I see someone riding a llama without a seat belt Smiley Tongue). 

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

ITA.  I feel like our language is being hijacked, and someone is always getting offended by something.  I try to live and let live unless someone is trying to force their social/political/whatever agenda on me.

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

"trying to improve BT for our benefit"


What do you mean by our benefit??? You certainly don't speak for me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who hates the new changes.

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

That the intention is to do it for our benefit doesn't mean that it actually works out that way. I think basically any changes to BT probably don't end up benefiting Sephora in any meaningful way profit-wise, so when they do make any changes, why do they do it? To annoy us? That seems unlikely.


I think changes - for the most part - are always well intentioned, and always intended to improve the site for us, the users. It may not always succeed in doing so, and as I said, I'm not a fan of the changes myself, but I can certainly see the good intentions for what they are. I'm not trying to speak for you, as I didn't say "This benefited us", I said they're "trying to do it for us". Judging from the responses to Candi's announcement, I think many others also saw it as something positive.


Again - I didn't see it as a good change. I don't like not being able to see the OT threads, because half the threads I start are Off Topic and now I'm probably going to forget to go there. I'm making a general point, not a specific one to this change.

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

I feel pretty strongly that the forums ARE a marketing tool for Sephora. I alone have spent a small fortune on things I wouldn't have even known about had it not been for BT. Such as...I was having severe skin issues, based on feedback from other members I ordered First Aid Beauty Ultra Repair Cream in the largest size THAT day, and since then have purchased two more  in more portable sizes. I learned about Naked 3 before the launch here and purchased when it came out - actually, two - one for me and one for a friend. I became a NARS fan here.  I want Hourglass ambient lighting powders because i see how popular they are.  I split the UD liner vault with two other ladies here, that's $300 alone and I wouldn't have ever purchased it on my own.  I ordered Anastasia Dipbrow the day I saw images posted by some ladies here who were using it and their eyebrows looked fabulous! I am building up my DDG skincare collection, I was given some great feedback here on their C serum.


This is all stuff I purchased because of the forums, and after over a year I bet there's a lot more than that!  I always read product reviews before buying - there is a value to providing a place for us gals  to talk about makeup and skincare. I am going to listen feedback from people who are impartial with no ulterior motives, and I am always glad to sing the praises of products that have worked form me. (I am known to a few to be an enabler for Urban Decay products.)


Im not sure I wouldve made Rouge, BT has changed my spending and fueled my makeup obsession. What I'm saying is...companies spend a LOT on marketing costs, in my opinion, BT is a marketing tool in that it creates sales by pretty much working for itself.  Not that it doesn't require some work, with coding and moderating, but really it's the community supporting the community. There is value to drawing people in, especially those who have lots of experience with makeup and brands, because they can help others with their questions.


Can anyone else think of things they have purchased BECAUSE of BT? I am sure I'm not alone... Smiley Tongue

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Definitely. BT has been such a terrible source of enabling for me. Every time my husband sees me on the forums he's like "Oh god what are they going to make you buy now?" Smiley Very Happy

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

I can't think of specific products right now but it's a lot! I know I got into Hourglass because of BT and like you said we shared the vault which I wouldn't have purchased by myself. I spent way more because I joined BT. A lot of enabling BECAUSE of BT. IMO BT is a marketing tool. People talking about products and how they like them etc. In french we call it bouche à oreille and it's probably the best type of marketing/advertising a company could ever ask for!

Re: Website suggestions/requests...

You're not alone Syd, I bought some of the very items you listed as well!  This board is very profitable for Sephora.


Re: Website suggestions/requests...

Absolutely no doubt.  It is a marketing tool for Sephora and nothing more.   If they were not making a profit from this, would gone.   And unfortunately, I have fallen into their trap and spent WAY more than I would have, had it not been for BT and all those darn enablers!!!  Smiley Very Happy Smiley Very Happy Smiley Very Happy

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