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Post in Lip Lovers

Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

Looking for matte and similar shade to Dolce Vita that are non toxic 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

@fsadeli  I'm also wondering what specific ingredient(s) you want to avoid, since I doubt there's anything truly toxic in the NARS Dolce Vita lipstick. 

 

In addition to NARS Velvet Matte Lipstick Pencil Dolce Vita which is probably the best match, maybe tarte Lippie Lingerie Matte Lip Tint Whisper is close? Or perhaps tarte Tarteist™ Quick Dry Matte Lip Paint Rose ? 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

Hi,

 

I love chemistry and decoding ingredients so yes there are toxic ingredients in that Nars Dolce Vita lipstick and lip liner.

 

1 - Cyclopentasiloxane

"Annex II contains the list of banned substances that cannot be used in cosmetic products placed on the EU market, and now includes Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane (D4). In practical terms, this means that all wash-off cosmetic products will have to contain less than 0,1% of Cyclopentasiloxane (D5) as of 31 January 2020." 

 

2 - Parabens... "In experimental animals, parabens exposure was associated with adverse effects on female reproduction." (Research: Jurewicz, J., Radwan, M., Wielgomas, B. et al. Parameters of ovarian reserve in relation to urinary concentrations of parabens. Environ Health 19, 26 (2020)). Paraben is an endocrine-disrupting chemical and mimics estrogen!

"Rudel, R. A., & Perovich, L. J. (2009). Endocrine disrupting chemicals in indoor and outdoor air. Atmospheric environment (Oxford, England : 1994)43(1), 170–181" - Parabens and phthalates. 

In 2020, Health Canada has said (google Parabens Health Canada😞 

"Under Canada's Chemicals Management Plan, we review and manage the potential risks that chemical substances can pose to Canadians and the environment...We are proposing that some parabens may pose a risk to your health:

  • methylparaben and propylparaben in:
    • natural health products
  • butylparaben and iso-butylparaben in:
    • cosmetics
    • natural health products
    • non-prescription drugs

These chemicals may cause:

  • effects on the spleen and thyroid
  • damage to the lining of the stomach
  • developmental and/or reproductive impacts"

Guess what's in the Nars Dolce Vita Lip liner 🤔..... methylparaben and propylparaben 😱 

 

3 - BHT - some mixed evidence on it being or not being a carcinogen... but it's banned for use in food additives in the EU.

 

Also important to keep in mind that a lot of these chemicals bioaccumulate or absorb into your skin and build up over time. So say for example a product has 1% methylparaben, if you use that product (lotion/sunscreen/foundation/lipstick/skin or hair or body product) regularly the chemical will naturally build up over time. Also Health Canada and other research showed that natural parabens (not the ones used in skin products) and the parabens used in foods as additives have little to no toxic effects whereas skin products with parabens do as absorption through the skin is a significant route and more directly impacts the hormones involved in fertility and such (look it up it's fascinating! 👩‍💻). That's why I straight up avoid products with parabens because a little bit for a long time runs the risk of unfortunately getting toxic effects.

 

Hope this helped! 🤗

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

Hi @Nahnom ! I also love to learn about ingredients, as my entire skincare routine is ingredient-driven due to my specific skin issues. I have a few thoughts: 

 

1. Cyclopentasiloxane isn't toxic to humans. The issue brought up in Europe has more to do with cyclotetrasiloxane, and making sure manufacturers use as pure a form of cyclopentasiloxane possible to avoid the issue. Plus, there's still a European allowance of cyclopentasiloxane of less than 0.1%. 

 

2. Ah, parabens, perhaps the most unfairly demonized family of ingredients. One of the studies (the 1998 Rutledge study) frequently cited as proof of parabens affecting hormones involved injecting rats with parabens, instead of applying parabens topically to rats' skin. Also, based on that study's data, our own naturally estradiol is MUCH stronger than parabens. The other frequently cited study (the 2004 Darbre study) used to prove parabens cause cancer was faulty for several reasons, such as having no control group. I've actually read that study and even I—someone without a chemistry background—can see the glaring problems with it. I'll track down and read the Jurewicz study you mentioned, but I suspect it might be similar to 2 other earlier studies that found traces of parabens in urine, which isn't a strong case for claiming parabens disrupt the female reproduction system. 

 

3. As you noted, BHT hasn't been proven carcinogenic. 

 

 

I appreciate that you choose to avoid these ingredients. But I'm not willing to label them as toxic. I haven't seen nearly enough proof of toxicity. Granted, I'm not a doctor or chemist, so I occasionally field feedback from folks who work professionally in those fields. Last time I asked I did a round of "so, changed your mind yet about parabens," the answer was a resounding "nope." 

 

It's possible that could change of course, given enough clinical study and research. That's true of any ingredient, including those some folks consider "clean" (whatever that really is) today. When government health agency statements against an ingredient include lots of "may," "might," and "possibly," I know that means they're erring on the side of conservative caution without adequate proof to definitively call the ingredient dangerous. 

 

EDIT: be very careful about using the EWG as a reliable source for anything. Their rating system makes no sense and doesn't seem to be science-driven. It also appears they rate "dangerous" ingredients as safe or less dangerous when listed for products by brands they prefer—and I suspect those brands support the EWG in some way (monetary or otherwise). 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

Well that's good for you. I'm just giving my opinion and a possible explanation as to why the original poster wanted a non-toxic dupe. 

 

I unfortunately also have skin issues and thus I just straight up avoid products with parabens and such (I have my own list of ingredients to avoid just like you have your own). I understood the language used in Health Canada's message (I took wayyy too many science writing courses in university that I can write a message like that in my sleep lol). I used that as part of an explanation as to why I and people like the original poster avoid those products (I personally have other reasons but I'm not sure if the original poster also shares those reasons, hence why I went the research/Internet route).

Also I don't use EWG, I just grabbed it off the internet. I use PubMed. 

 

Everyone has their own opinions based off the research and experiences with skin products. 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

@Nahnom  Hey, make sure you tag folks in your replies so they’ll get notifications. Otherwise people might miss your replies. I know the BIC notifications feature is glitchy (again) right now, but it’s still a good habit to get into. 

 
Of course everyone has their own opinions about skincare. And since everyone’s skin is different, many of us have tailored our routines to include and exclude specific ingredients we know our skin reacts badly to. And that’s okay! 🙂 
 
It’s just that you presented some info as fact, not opinion, by stating that those particular ingredients are toxic. I felt obligated to explain those ingredients have not been proven toxic. I shared my explanations not just for you, but also for the person who started this thread, to perhaps help them make informed decisions. If a third person jumped into this discussion with more info based on their own research (not just reading the abstract of a clinical study, which I suspect the EWG does) and disagreed with one or both of us, that’d also be okay. Different perspectives and fact-sharing are partly what science thrives on, after all. So do communities in general, like BIC. 
 
I’m glad you don’t actually use the EWG’s site. I was being very nice in my description of them. 😂 In my opinion, no one should ever use the EWG as a resource. Not even folks who are into “clean beauty” (which I’m definitely not—but I’ll spare folks my usual rant about “clean”). And I’ve yet to meet a dermatologist or chemist who doesn’t feel the same. 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

 Lol @WinglessOne I didn't even get a notification that you replied to my reply hahaha wow must be glitchy. 

 

Derailed convo aside, I hope @fsadeli (who was MIA since a couple of days after this post was made) was able to take home some good advice including mine on Temptalia and Clean at Sephora label. 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

thank you for your reply! Nothing in particular, but probably the one without paraben, phenoxytanol or mica that I saw on their ingredients. Looking for the one that I can use everyday without worry. The tarte list that you mentioned aren't available in Sephora? 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

The Nars lipstick you asked for a dupe has: parabens, BHT (mixed evidence as to if it is a potential carcinogen according to EWG, but for me better safe than sorry), and cyclosiloxanes (environmental pollutant, suspected toxic effects on humans) in it. Check out the Clean at Sephora (Clean makeup) label, the makeups with that label don't have any parabens and very limited amounts of phenyoxytanol and BHT. 

 

Unfortunately mica is found in soo many makeup products. I just look for synthetic mica (I think only Lush (non-Sephora) and maybe one other company I'm forgetting the name of do that) and products from companies part of the Responsible Mica Initiative (if you look in my post history, I have a post detailing which companies are part of it). The Responsible Mica Initiative is focused on bettering the environments children who would otherwise be mining for mica live in and on sourcing their mica child-labor-free and ethically (now that is what the organization proclaims...like all big non-profit/charity organizations, who knows if they actually are 100% focused on their mission). 

 

https://www.sephora.com/ca/en/beauty/clean-beauty-products?activeTab=clean0719_cleanfragrance_tab_UF... 

 

There is also the EWG site that you can search up products and their ingredients, and INCIDecoder website to decode ingredients of skincare products. 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

@fsadeli Is there a specific ingredient you're looking to avoid?  I'm not sure what you mean by 'non-toxic'.   I believe NARS does make this shade in the Velvet matte lip pencils if you were looking for something more matte than the lip balm or sheer lipstick. 

Re: Best non toxic lip matte dupes for Nars Dolce Vita please

I love to use Temptalia (website) to find dupes and swatches for lots of makeup products including Nars lipstick. It has a wide variety of dupes from different brands (indie to high-end/luxury). Hope this helped! 😊

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