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Post in Besides Beauty

Racism in Fashion?

Ok, this doesn't apply to Sephora because they do a good job of showcasing beauty of different races and ethnicities, but my beef lies with the fashion designers, in particular: Dolce and Gabanna, Prada, Dior, etc. It angers me that since they are popular high-end designers, people still support them....ok now I'm starting to babble, I'll get to the point...


My point is that they see white people as high end, elite, and everyone wants to look like them. I have never seen Prada use a black model ever. 


Now there's another question: what about Asian, Hispanic, Indian...?


Yes, they are the minority, however, they get better job openings because of their skin color, which is sad. In 2013, you'd think that there's change, but there's non, nada. Yes, blacks (dark-skinned people) can get sucessful, but that's about it. 


Why post this on Sephora? 


Sephora does a fantastic job of seeing people as beautiful, everybody is beautiful in their own way. Several companies Sephora carries such as Bobbi Brown, Nars, Lancome, etc, they do a wonderful job and they're sucessful. 


I think the biggest problem is that since Dior Prada Coco Chanel, etc are popular brands at the moment, they have extrodinary influence on the way people outlook beauty and since 93 percent of the models they used are white, it's enough to assume that they think whites are super while there are other diversities.




What is your opinion on Racism in fashion? 





Re: Racism in Fashion?

@MintShake- So are you being racist by not commenting that the Caucasian lady is not gorgeous??? Really????

Re: Racism in Fashion?

That is not even true. If you read my post the problem is that only Caucasian ladies seem to be seen as beautiful. The whole purpose of this forum is the show that other diversities are beautiful. 

Re: Racism in Fashion?

@MIntshake- Ok I understand your point and I understand but do you see how easily things can be taken the wrong way?

Re: Racism in Fashion?

I suppose so, but I would've guessed that...nevermind

Re: Racism in Fashion?

I just want to add that racism exists towards every skin color, including caucasians. School acceptance/scholarships & Jobs are supposed to be "equal opportunity", yet many times someone who is white may not get a position because someone of color applied, but is less qualified. Same is true for gender. If the US really wants equality, then it should be equal across the board. Best resume gets the job no matter what your race, religion or gender is. Same goes for education; school's pride themselves on being diverse. We shouldn't have to check a box stating what color we are. We are all equal. 

What really irked me was when Obama was running for re-election and an African American actress was supporting Romney. Everyone threw a hissy fit. How could she not support her fellow African American? To me those calling her out are racists. So now we have to choose our countries leader based on his skin color? That makes no sense to me. 

Re: Racism in Fashion?

I think you need to look into "white privilege" - I'm not sure you realize how offensive it is to people of color to claim white people are oppressed or victims of racism.  Saying we are all equal doesn't change the hundreds of years of oppression and institutionalized inequality that disadvantages people of color and gives white people the upper hand in nearly every aspect of life.

Re: Racism in Fashion?

I love you. Sociology FTW!

Re: Racism in Fashion?

If we're looking for a change, then why are we stuck in the past? "hundreds of years of oppression and institutionalized inequality" If we keep looking at the past how are we ever going to move forward? 

So you agree that CEO's of top companies should be chosen by race & gender, not by qualification? That our president's race is more important than what he believes in? 

Re: Racism in Fashion?

We're not stuck looking at the past, we're looking at right now, dealing with reality.

Thats based on the assumption that we're not currently still experiencing years of oppression and institutionalized inequality. So, when do you think that we came out of that? When was it that warrants perceiving inequality as in the past and possible to ignore?


Also, CEOs should be based on qualifications. You seem to believe that equal opportunity is unfairly putting unqualified minorities in charge, so can you explain to me why 21% of Fortune 500 CEOs are POC? That's including ALL non-white races. And 3.6% are women (2012).To believe that equal opportunity is unfairly positive to unqualified minorities is to say the small percentage of minorities in high position are unfairly there. Its implying there's very few qualified minorities and that's offensive. 


The presidents race is not more important that his beliefs, but his experiences related to his race do have an affect on his beliefs. It would make sense that other minorities appreciated that he had experiences similar to what they experienced. Anyone who voted for or against him purely on his race is ignorant. But its a white privilege to see his race as simply a skin color we must be blind to. Ethnicity is a huge part of the POC experience, for good and bad, its impossible for him and voters to ignore how his experiences as a biracial black man affected him. And they shouldn't ignore it.


Any kind of belief that he was voted in simply because of his skin color is an offensive assumption. A huge part of his voters were minorities. That belief implies that the minorities didn't do any research into the candidates or critically think about what they want as US citizens. Put simply, he wasn't elected because he was black, that was just a bonus.



Re: Racism in Fashion?

Whoever saw this post unedited, it was NOT me who posted was my adorable but immature neice who does not share in my sentiments...

Re: Racism in Fashion?

The pale to tanning phenomenon is very US. And "Caucasions are forever tanning and even getting surgeries to make their lips like an african american, for example." Is so naively offensive I'm not even sure how to start the unraveling of why.


I can try to pull up studies if I can get into my journal article account, but its a topic of study of why beauty standards and fashion love tanning but turn away from naturally dark skin.


So to start with, the two are obviously not the same. And your implication that tanning=preferring AA beauty is wrong.

Re: Racism in Fashion?

Noted. Thank you for the PM. Good luck with the niece. Hopefully she'll understand, eventually.

Re: Racism in Fashion?

Hopefully everyone will understand. amen

Re: Racism in Fashion?

I didn't want to really give input in this thread, i think it's such a sensitive subject, but i just wanted to add this. 

There is beauty in everything that exist in this world. It doesn't matter your skin tone, how you look, your height, your weight, where you come from, what you do. We need to learn to see the beauty in things and not focus on what we can't change. I would love to see changes in many things to better make the world equal, but we can't change the mind of every person. I think all women, of every color, are beautiful, and i only wish the world would see it too. 

Re: Racism in Fashion?

Very well put.

Re: Racism in Fashion?

I appreciate your attitude and lovely kindness, but I just couldn't be okay with myself if I didn't at least try to open eyes. I hope its not about changing minds in this forum, cause that would mean some beliefs are already made up and it doesn't matter what information I give. Sigh, I just wish our experiences would stop being dismissed as not based in reality and a product of political correctness. I'm not PC, I'm coming from life, reality, and science, you know? 



Re: Racism in Fashion?

you are right. this IS important

Re: Racism in Fashion?

If you look hard enough, you'll find something to support your point, regardless of what it is. Whether you're trying to state racism exists in fashion or whether you're trying to state that though there is an imbalance, there's not some horrific void or inability to expand the industry.


For example, you state that you've never seen an African American model for Prada, in 1994, Naomi Campbell was used in Prada's print ads:



And in 2008, Jourdan Dunn was the first African American female to walk for Prada. Though time frames and periods might not be the most progressive in the fashion industry, it is moving along.


Just because it's not moving or expanding at a rapid enough rate for the majority of the world to see doesn't mean it's not happening, but just because there are more Caucasians in the fashion world doesn't mean their race should be held against them either. They're not joining the fashion ranks to "hold down" any other race, just as other races from African American, Hispanic, Asian, or Middle Eastern aren't only joining to "combat" or fight the image of Caucasians.


Changes happen, yes, some small, some big. But they all have to start somewhere. Though a 1994 Prada ad of Naomi or a 2008 runway featuring Jourdan may seem insignificant, it's progress nonetheless and much better than none at all. Just because we're not seeing changes take place in masses doesn't mean it's not happening. I mean, I merely had to Google "Prada African American Model" and had images of Naomi and Jourdan pop up. Besides, one must also factor in geographically where you live and what you're exposed to. In the USA, it can appear the demographic of Asian models is even fewer in number than African American models; however, once you travel to Asia, there's a slew of them that even out number Caucasian models in their market, but that doesn't cause flags to go up for Caucasians in Asia to state there's racism or discrimination toward them in that field.

Re: Racism in Fashion?

I understand what you're saying but to me that's an aspect of complacency. I'm tired of people telling me to be grateful for the little progress. It feels dismissive. Why shouldn't I fight to be perceived as equal? Why shouldn't I actively campaign? 


I don't believe that anyones speaking against white models. And we are intelligent enough to realize its not up to them who walks along them. But I very appreciate the white models that speak up for their fellow POC models. Look up the TedTalk by fashion model Cameron Russell.


Your two examples are constantly brought up as some kind of proof that everythings ok. But that's the problem. Too often do designers and casting agents cite Campbell and Dunn as if they filled a quota and so theres no need for them to cast POC. Beliiiieve me, we know and heard all bout Campbells and Dunns careers.


I know that I'm talking about the systematic racism in the industry. Too many here are making excuses to why they think its not so bad. 

I'm leaving the thread, its depressing and disappointing.

Re: Racism in Fashion?

Aw, Pickyplease, we're not here to depress or bog you down in any means. And frankly, I'm not stating anyone should be complacent either, but in that same breath for not wanting to be complacent one can merely come back and state if you don't want to be complacent and you don't want to fight or actively campaign, then how will change be boosted and supported to progress?


I'm not saying you or any one specific person must lobby for racial equality in the fashion world, but the ideal that one isn't happy with the current matter but in the same aspect doesn't want to be the one to do anything will lead to nowhere.


I'm also not here to say that racism isn't bad. Would I like equality? You're darn skippy that I do and would! But do I believe it'll come easily? No, I do not, as much as I may want otherwise. Acceptance and equality levels are never going to satisfy everyone because everyone has different tastes. What you may view as equality in the fashion world may be a sudden overabundance to others, and then what? This is a matter where it's impossible to appease everyone at the same time.


If there are personal instances where you felt the need to defend yourself, then my deepest sympathies, discrimination can befall anyone regards of race, color, creed, or gender. You know that my post is in no way a direct attack on your or anyone, but I know where your frustration lies and can only hope that the positives and progressive changes made can be big and shine clear enough for not just you but the world to see to provide some solace and peace of mind.


Though the faces of the two models I featured for Prada shouldn't count as a satisfactory sigh of relief and only sign of progress, it shouldn't be discredited either as that would be a shame to both models. A step forward is a step forward, regardless of size shoe you have on, as long as more steps are being taken to move forward we won't have to worry about moving back. Smiley Happy

Re: Racism in Fashion?

I don't understand, you're preaching to the choir about doing things. There's many activist and representative groups lobbying. Nothing is a natural process and you'll be shocked at all the things in entertainment that could've been more offensive or discriminatory if not for the groups behind the scenes. My cousin is the executive director of CAPE. I've very much involved in campaigning. 


There ARE concrete solutions and groups. Minorities aren't just sitting and complaining. But like the majority of 'ism causes, that's invisible to those that have the privilege not to need them.


Its a constant fight that we ARE fighting. I think youre underestimating the volume of dismissal and rejection the campaigns  receive.  And I'm not discrediting Campbell and Dunn ... I don't think you're understanding me at all. I'm not being a negative to your positive, I'm explaining why your positive might want to take a lateral move. You're allmost there but not quite.


Equality isn't about appeasement. Its about equality. The hurt feelings of someone feeling a loss because others were risen up to their level (no one gets dragged down when minorities are given opportunities and rights), is not one I care to soothe. 

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