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Post in Besides Beauty

How do you feel about BT lately?

I've read through the guidelines... again, before posting this to ensure that: - I'm Nice - I have Good netiquette - I'm not vague (These are the rules) I'm a little disappointed with BT right now; over the last couple of months, it feels like there have been several issues within the community; heart parties, multiple posts, people complaining about things, and (we'll just call it) member issues. I have a love/hate relationship with this community; I've learned so much and met some amazing people (shout out to SparkleKai, Vanillammm, Loretta, Killahbabe, Hackney, Lari, KB, Linda, Annec322, {I'm sure I'm forgetting someone... sorry- it's like an oscar speech}) but it just feels like some behaviors are allowed and tolerated while others aren't. As much as I said I was going to stay away because the community was becoming draining, I find myself back here wanting to help someone, or read something that will enable me. It's really confusing and awful. I'm still fairly new to BT, and hear about the "old BT" where everyone was nice to each other, and it was fun (sounds like the 60's), but when I joined, it wasn't so contentious and filled with (be nice, be nice) people who are different. I'm interested to see how others are feeling? Is there something we can do as a community to change this and make BT feel like a functional home again? I'm not looking to stir anything up; I'm genuinely asking for your candor and ideas. I'm sure the Mods and Candace would appreciate anything that helps their lives too.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I love some of the ladies from the old BT and the new BT, which is why I split time between both sites.  I am also enjoying getting to know some of the old (most are younger than I am, but you know what I mean) and new members I do not already know, because I am still finding people I really like.  There are quite a few of you lovely ladies (I do not want to leave a name out by mistake, so I will just say you know who you are) whom I feel real 3D friendships with even though we have only communicated 2D.  It does seem like the veterans had a little more fun (partly because the rules have changed so much and you have to remember to venture over to off topic to have any fun and even then things sometimes get shut down too fast).  

 

The difference between when I made my first post last July to now is vast.  I do not see any harm in having a little fun.  Did the veterans stand up for themselves when they felt attacked, yes, but I would not respect them if they did not.  You have to stand up for yourself when someone crosses you.  Some people from both sides are a little more sensitive than others, so I am not going to tell either side when they should stand up for themselves or not.  I tend to be a little less sensitive, but I have no problem calling out a troll.

 

I think most posts are helpful and/or fun.  The problem is you never know how someone will interpret a post.  Just today, a post I made was taken in a different way than I meant it.  I tried to clarify, but I know sometimes that just makes the situation worse.  It is sad that some people feel a little of the us vs them mentality, because I think everyone is given an equal chance to make friends when they join. Are my BT friends the same as the person reading this, probably not? I do not have the same personality as everyone reading this, so I click with different people. There are people I do not particularly love (even though I still play nice with everyone) as I am sure there are people who feel the same way about me.

 

That said, I can see where some of that us vs them mentality may stem from.  While I was searching old threads today, I noticed some threads/posts (particularly the Intros are not a thing thread, which I just saw for the first time).  I did not like some of the content, and that was around the time I started posting regularly.  While it may not have been a direct jab at me, I know I was most likely linked in with the group of new users who saw intros from others and thought we should introduce ourselves).  When you're new, most try to follow the example, and it looked like that was it when I started.

 

I do not know if that thread or a couple of the others I saw today when I started actively posting would have changed how active I have become had I seen them then.  Most would not want to post when they feel like they are unwelcome.  But, I ended up really liking some of the users who made the threads/comments about new users I STILL disagree with.  Had I seen them, I may have prejudged them (even though I try not to base everything on the first impression).  The members who post stuff like that do run the risk of being prejudged by people who believe in judging people based on first impressions.  I would have missed out on getting to know some great ladies had I snapped to judgement.

 

I guess my (longwinded) point is I understand that people want to be with and correspond with like people, and I do not see anything wrong with that. This site has mostly good people, new and old.  Most will play nice with you as long as you are not offensive or go crazy.  I do not think either side should be quick to judge someone.  You could misinterpret the meaning and miss out on a great potential friendship.  It may take you a while to learn their personality.  I have to say that Mermaid has a fantastically witty personality, so I hope no one judges her too quickly and misses it.  There was a post against her recently, and I thought that person obviously does not get how great and funny she is.  Sometimes the veterans are really trying to help new members learn the ropes (even if the posts appear bossy, elitist, etc).  I personally appreciate people like sydbristow who took the time to send me very thoughtful pms on a matter where she was looking out for people she barely knew.  If she is not kind, I do not know who is.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I don't claim to be an old member or really feel like I've developed much of a "deep" relationship with any users in particular - which is fine with me, that's not what I'm looking to get out of BT - but I try and be friendly to all, so I'm hoping to to induce any backlash with this post. 

 

These threads always make me a bit sad because while the subject seems innocent enough, it seems like all the BTers who already made their swan song thread about how the board has changed and they're leaving all come back for threads like these where they can reiterate why they don't like what's happened and remind everybody that they left. 

 

I get it... you liked it, this was your "home", and where you got to know fellow BTers with whom you eventually became friends with. I understand that you miss "what it was" and "never wanted to leave," or whatever... But come on... if you don't like what it is, go. From what I can tell, you all have a lovely alternative that is serving the purpose you need it to serve. I've even been invited - though I primarily just lurk and read. 

 

But enough with the dead horse beating. If you don't like the rules or don't feel like the moderation is fair or equal, it's okay! No, nobody wants anybody to leave, but that's the decision of the user and it really doesn't do anyone any good to have the constant negativity.

 

But please don't leave only to come back for threads like these to remind everybody that you don't like the board or the new members.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Pretty sure no one is "coming back just for threads like this to remind everybody that [we] don't like the board or the new members."

 

There have been a few members who left BT and are never coming back. There are also members like myself who still are on BT, but not as much as we have been because it is not the place for us anymore. Like I said, I don't feel like it is a community anymore, but I still come on here to chat with a few friends and to give advice to those who seek it.

 

I can not like what BT has become and still be a member here. Telling us to "go" is pretty rude and definitely negative, and I am pretty sure "it doesn't do anyone any good" when this is an open forum for everyone.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I agree with Missie. These threads make me sad also, because things never really seem to change. But I don't think that negates the purpose of them. Although some of us may participate less on BT, no one is coming back just to remind everyone why we left. And it is very rude to insinuate that and tell us just to go. 

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I would like to think that i do more than rock in my rocking chair and reminisce about the good old days of BT. Feel free to check my posting history and the content.

 

Its like having a lipstick you like discontinued, there is always hope for an LE release or finding one hidden somewhere. I come and post, trying to help with questions etc. but keep noticing the changes mentioned in my initial post. And I think it's ok to aspire/wish for BT to be more.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

perhaps checking out post history would indicate to you that this is not the only thing we have participated in.  you said "i try and be friendly to all, so i'm hoping to to induce any backlash with this post" but then talk about our swan song and tell us to go.  We get that you get it.  Doesn't mean we don't have the right to express our opinions.  Perhaps if you don't want any backlash you will choose your words more carefully next time.

 

i agree with syd below.  sometimes i hope that by coming back i will find a glimpse of the things i loved and there is nothing wrong with that. 

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

A lot of people have left. Some people are gone for good. And some people are here less. I still post and help people with questions/recommendations and you better believe I still speak my mind on threads like these. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't a lot of us? Mrs. B posted a thread that contained my name directly (as well as some other BT members who aren't here as often) and involves the changes in the BT atmosphere. I chose to speak on what I used to love and what I currently don't like... as have many others. From what I can see, no one has said they don't like new members, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I'm not sure why you're not applying your own advice about BT and others to this thread and yourself: "if you don't like it, go." And, no that's not me telling you to go or to not have an opinion, I'm only inverting what you said to many others to reflect it back onto you. Maybe you'll see that the vibe isn't kind. Maybe not. Either way, I'll continue to post freely on items of interest to me, as I expect everyone else to do.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I don't think any one is just coming back for these threads. I believe most are still here and reading when they have time. I see posts from them when  they feel they have the time to & can help someone. This time of year many people have less discretionary internet time due to family things, vacations, etc. Just because they aren't posting doesn't mean they left.  I know for certain  my life currently a bit overloaded.  The last statement comes across to me as an us vs. them statement.  I personally feel that is undeserved as I do what I can to help when I can.  I think many others who have been here longer do as well.  I admire and thank them for spending their time and effort to help myself & others. I would hope that others would also.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

::::Clapping:::::  Smiley Happy

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I believe you are referring about my "swan song" thread. How quaint. You know, I said I was going off to another site to play, but I never said I wasn't ever coming back here. Sometimes I come over to look at TSB's still making rounds, and to respond to pm's, etc...

 I didn't start this thread, and I do find it dramatic/pot stirrer whatever you want to call it- but I find this post to do just the same. Could I have walked away and not said anything- sure, so could have you.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I joined BT a couple years ago, but never posted until this year.  Even now, my posts have been very few.   But that doesn't mean I don't get on here and read.  I read everyone else's posts, page after page of funny pictures, beautiful eye makeup looks, questions about skincare, and sharing exciting makeup tips with each other.  As an outsider who is OK with being an outsider, who would rather read than participate, I can attest that I have seen much of what other ladies here are commenting about. 

 

I have seen women be so kind and generous to each other, offering not just makeup tips, but acceptance and friendship to near strangers.  I have seen miscommunications that have turned into passive aggressive battles.  I have seen women trying to give helpful, knowledgeable advice, only to be called bullies or treated shamefully.  I have seen over and over postings from a mentally unbalanced woman who gives detailed information about her welfare checks and criminal record, and who begs people and Sephora for handouts.  I have seen other members get annoyed at her multiple train-of-thought postings and finally explode in frustration, only to be reprimanded by mods or other members.  I have seen young kids, barely out of high-school, with a shoe-box full of makeup, come on here and call themselves "makeup artists", and give incorrect and often harmful advice on thread after thread.  And when other members (sometimes kindly, sometimes not), finally speak up, I've seen them called bullies.   And I've seen members who are permanently guarded and sarcastic, defending themselves at every turn, which can make a simple makeup thread immediately turn tense and personal.

 

I've seen a lot of miscommunication in the 6 months I've been reading all your posts.  I see two distinct groups of women: the ones who believe BT should be a community of friends, all sharing advice and tips, teasing each other, calling each other out when in error, and developing and continuing these relationships outside of BT.  And the second group who believe that BT should be a semi-professional type of community, where we can share tips and advice, but not develop a deeper friendship between each other, and any misunderstandings should be directed to the mods to deal with.  Neither of these groups is the "wrong group", and neither of these groups is the "right group".  It's a social dynamic that will never balance, especially as daily more members join who fit into both groups, and personalities begin to clash. 

 

Is there a way to fix it?  No.  BT is just a pie slice of the human race, and we've been at war since the dawn of time.  Smiley Happy  On a simpler scale, most of us don't always get along with our family, or even our neighbors, so we can't expect to create a small scale nirvana on a makeup board full of complete strangers.  My *opinion*, as a dreaded lurker, is to choose the group you want to belong to, but then don't complain when you see the other group behaving as they do.  So if you're the buddy-buddy type of group, don't be surprised when someone takes offense at your playfully rude criticism and reports you to the mods.  If you prefer to be facts based and more beauty focused, don't be offended and rude at the group that thinks Paula Deen riding a meatball is hilarious.  The Golden Rule never grows old: treat others how you would like to be treated.  As others mentioned above, we don't all have to agree, but we should respect each other.

 

My two cents.  Smiley Very Happy

 

 

 

 

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Bravo, kristallovesdogs! A hundred hearts!

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Wish I could heart this more. Thanks for posting this. 

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I appreciate the way you ended your comment.  Respect is key, even if you dont always agree Smiley Happy 

 

xo, Mia

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Perfect response. Thank you!!!!

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Great post.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Hey kristallovesdogs, that is one eloquent, fabulous post!  I wish I could write like you! Word, 100%.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Awesome and eloquent post, kristallovesdogs. You deserve all the hearts you're getting for this comment!

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I agree with most of what you said.  This is a great post.  

 

The only place I differ on is rather than choosing a group, I will choose the individuals I like.  There are great people on both sides.  However, I will still play nice with the members I find less beneficial to the community.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Fantastic post, Kristallovesdogs!  <3 <3 <3

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Unpopular opinion to a lot of people it seems, but half the problem seems to be that people think there are 'cliques', 'cat-packs', 'mean girls', but lets be honest this experience is what you make of it. You want to see cliques, cat-packs, mean girls or people being mean to each other- that's what you're going to see. You want to see a group of close girls making jokes about Paula Deen, llamas, mustaches, heart parties etc then you're going to just see girls having fun. If we can't poke fun at ourselves and others then life is going to be insanely boring and lonely. Join our parties, join our fun or go make your own! If you don't want to have fun then stick strictly to the advice threads, but the girls who genuinely love people and having fun will be everywhere because that's who we are. We want to get to know everyone and make friends because honestly some of these ladies are the most amazing I've met. 

If you branch out and try to make friends, you will. If you want to be a recluse and be hateful then by all means go ahead because no one is stopping you, but stop crying about it. 

The other issue I think is the 'bullying' issue. No one is fooling anyone but not naming any names here in the bullying situation, but when someone is spewing incorrect, potential harmful information, or even if it's just plain wrong we get bashed for correcting them. The first few times it seemed to be corrected nicely but as time moves on and they still are spewing the same information that's wrong or highly biased based upon youtube or PC reviews (or still not corrected or acknowledged despite the overwhelming comments filled with first hand knowledge?) what are you supposed to do? Continue to wear rose colored glasses and pretend everything is rainbows and unicorns? It's frustrating, and we have emotions and we're going to let them show. Or when someone is attempting to 'go outside the box' and have an overwhelming posts of 'yay or nay' and straight up rude, disrespectful, posts or shoves his opinion down our throats? We get to endure that too and the people that have EARNED their places in out community are banned, ignored, reprimanded, belittled and called names?

 

You know what's bullying? That is. But none of the 'cat pack' call it that because they have thicker skin, they take things with a grain of salt, and they will never let some internet weirdo have that power over them. And honestly, they simply don't care about some irrelevant opinion.  

But to answer your question what can we do to change and make BT feel like a home again? 
Nothing, because it's going to take all of us and most people won't change because no one is doing anything wrong and I guess in a way the members aren't really doing anything wrong because they're just being themselves. It's just a personality conflict of multiple people and that's okay. What can the mods do? Not play favorites. I.e when someone is giving awful advice like putting a turned-on hair straightener on a towel maybe not agreeing with them (unless you want the house burned down, then by all means proceed), or when someone is spewing random information about her life and straying off topic, giving out personal information, posting 3+ comments at a time having nothing to do with the topic (fyi being vague is apparently in the rules) make them leave. Apparently, you have that power just for banning people who say they "live in Bt". And finally when a new member is trying to collect personal information like social media sites, actual cities and states protect us. That kind of stuff is dangerous, and unnecessary. Be across the board for everyone because if snark and off-topicness is what you ban for a certain nutty person should have been banned 37 seconds into coming onto the forum. 

 

/rant over

 

p.s. sorry if this didn't all make sense, i was just filled with emotions Smiley Tongue

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