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Post in Besides Beauty

How do you feel about BT lately?

I've read through the guidelines... again, before posting this to ensure that: - I'm Nice - I have Good netiquette - I'm not vague (These are the rules) I'm a little disappointed with BT right now; over the last couple of months, it feels like there have been several issues within the community; heart parties, multiple posts, people complaining about things, and (we'll just call it) member issues. I have a love/hate relationship with this community; I've learned so much and met some amazing people (shout out to SparkleKai, Vanillammm, Loretta, Killahbabe, Hackney, Lari, KB, Linda, Annec322, {I'm sure I'm forgetting someone... sorry- it's like an oscar speech}) but it just feels like some behaviors are allowed and tolerated while others aren't. As much as I said I was going to stay away because the community was becoming draining, I find myself back here wanting to help someone, or read something that will enable me. It's really confusing and awful. I'm still fairly new to BT, and hear about the "old BT" where everyone was nice to each other, and it was fun (sounds like the 60's), but when I joined, it wasn't so contentious and filled with (be nice, be nice) people who are different. I'm interested to see how others are feeling? Is there something we can do as a community to change this and make BT feel like a functional home again? I'm not looking to stir anything up; I'm genuinely asking for your candor and ideas. I'm sure the Mods and Candace would appreciate anything that helps their lives too.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I don't claim to be an old member or really feel like I've developed much of a "deep" relationship with any users in particular - which is fine with me, that's not what I'm looking to get out of BT - but I try and be friendly to all, so I'm hoping to to induce any backlash with this post. 


These threads always make me a bit sad because while the subject seems innocent enough, it seems like all the BTers who already made their swan song thread about how the board has changed and they're leaving all come back for threads like these where they can reiterate why they don't like what's happened and remind everybody that they left. 


I get it... you liked it, this was your "home", and where you got to know fellow BTers with whom you eventually became friends with. I understand that you miss "what it was" and "never wanted to leave," or whatever... But come on... if you don't like what it is, go. From what I can tell, you all have a lovely alternative that is serving the purpose you need it to serve. I've even been invited - though I primarily just lurk and read. 


But enough with the dead horse beating. If you don't like the rules or don't feel like the moderation is fair or equal, it's okay! No, nobody wants anybody to leave, but that's the decision of the user and it really doesn't do anyone any good to have the constant negativity.


But please don't leave only to come back for threads like these to remind everybody that you don't like the board or the new members.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I believe you are referring about my "swan song" thread. How quaint. You know, I said I was going off to another site to play, but I never said I wasn't ever coming back here. Sometimes I come over to look at TSB's still making rounds, and to respond to pm's, etc...

 I didn't start this thread, and I do find it dramatic/pot stirrer whatever you want to call it- but I find this post to do just the same. Could I have walked away and not said anything- sure, so could have you.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

::::Clapping:::::  Smiley Happy

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I don't think any one is just coming back for these threads. I believe most are still here and reading when they have time. I see posts from them when  they feel they have the time to & can help someone. This time of year many people have less discretionary internet time due to family things, vacations, etc. Just because they aren't posting doesn't mean they left.  I know for certain  my life currently a bit overloaded.  The last statement comes across to me as an us vs. them statement.  I personally feel that is undeserved as I do what I can to help when I can.  I think many others who have been here longer do as well.  I admire and thank them for spending their time and effort to help myself & others. I would hope that others would also.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

A lot of people have left. Some people are gone for good. And some people are here less. I still post and help people with questions/recommendations and you better believe I still speak my mind on threads like these. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't a lot of us? Mrs. B posted a thread that contained my name directly (as well as some other BT members who aren't here as often) and involves the changes in the BT atmosphere. I chose to speak on what I used to love and what I currently don't like... as have many others. From what I can see, no one has said they don't like new members, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I'm not sure why you're not applying your own advice about BT and others to this thread and yourself: "if you don't like it, go." And, no that's not me telling you to go or to not have an opinion, I'm only inverting what you said to many others to reflect it back onto you. Maybe you'll see that the vibe isn't kind. Maybe not. Either way, I'll continue to post freely on items of interest to me, as I expect everyone else to do.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

perhaps checking out post history would indicate to you that this is not the only thing we have participated in.  you said "i try and be friendly to all, so i'm hoping to to induce any backlash with this post" but then talk about our swan song and tell us to go.  We get that you get it.  Doesn't mean we don't have the right to express our opinions.  Perhaps if you don't want any backlash you will choose your words more carefully next time.


i agree with syd below.  sometimes i hope that by coming back i will find a glimpse of the things i loved and there is nothing wrong with that. 

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I would like to think that i do more than rock in my rocking chair and reminisce about the good old days of BT. Feel free to check my posting history and the content.


Its like having a lipstick you like discontinued, there is always hope for an LE release or finding one hidden somewhere. I come and post, trying to help with questions etc. but keep noticing the changes mentioned in my initial post. And I think it's ok to aspire/wish for BT to be more.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Pretty sure no one is "coming back just for threads like this to remind everybody that [we] don't like the board or the new members."


There have been a few members who left BT and are never coming back. There are also members like myself who still are on BT, but not as much as we have been because it is not the place for us anymore. Like I said, I don't feel like it is a community anymore, but I still come on here to chat with a few friends and to give advice to those who seek it.


I can not like what BT has become and still be a member here. Telling us to "go" is pretty rude and definitely negative, and I am pretty sure "it doesn't do anyone any good" when this is an open forum for everyone.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I agree with Missie. These threads make me sad also, because things never really seem to change. But I don't think that negates the purpose of them. Although some of us may participate less on BT, no one is coming back just to remind everyone why we left. And it is very rude to insinuate that and tell us just to go. 

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I love some of the ladies from the old BT and the new BT, which is why I split time between both sites.  I am also enjoying getting to know some of the old (most are younger than I am, but you know what I mean) and new members I do not already know, because I am still finding people I really like.  There are quite a few of you lovely ladies (I do not want to leave a name out by mistake, so I will just say you know who you are) whom I feel real 3D friendships with even though we have only communicated 2D.  It does seem like the veterans had a little more fun (partly because the rules have changed so much and you have to remember to venture over to off topic to have any fun and even then things sometimes get shut down too fast).  


The difference between when I made my first post last July to now is vast.  I do not see any harm in having a little fun.  Did the veterans stand up for themselves when they felt attacked, yes, but I would not respect them if they did not.  You have to stand up for yourself when someone crosses you.  Some people from both sides are a little more sensitive than others, so I am not going to tell either side when they should stand up for themselves or not.  I tend to be a little less sensitive, but I have no problem calling out a troll.


I think most posts are helpful and/or fun.  The problem is you never know how someone will interpret a post.  Just today, a post I made was taken in a different way than I meant it.  I tried to clarify, but I know sometimes that just makes the situation worse.  It is sad that some people feel a little of the us vs them mentality, because I think everyone is given an equal chance to make friends when they join. Are my BT friends the same as the person reading this, probably not? I do not have the same personality as everyone reading this, so I click with different people. There are people I do not particularly love (even though I still play nice with everyone) as I am sure there are people who feel the same way about me.


That said, I can see where some of that us vs them mentality may stem from.  While I was searching old threads today, I noticed some threads/posts (particularly the Intros are not a thing thread, which I just saw for the first time).  I did not like some of the content, and that was around the time I started posting regularly.  While it may not have been a direct jab at me, I know I was most likely linked in with the group of new users who saw intros from others and thought we should introduce ourselves).  When you're new, most try to follow the example, and it looked like that was it when I started.


I do not know if that thread or a couple of the others I saw today when I started actively posting would have changed how active I have become had I seen them then.  Most would not want to post when they feel like they are unwelcome.  But, I ended up really liking some of the users who made the threads/comments about new users I STILL disagree with.  Had I seen them, I may have prejudged them (even though I try not to base everything on the first impression).  The members who post stuff like that do run the risk of being prejudged by people who believe in judging people based on first impressions.  I would have missed out on getting to know some great ladies had I snapped to judgement.


I guess my (longwinded) point is I understand that people want to be with and correspond with like people, and I do not see anything wrong with that. This site has mostly good people, new and old.  Most will play nice with you as long as you are not offensive or go crazy.  I do not think either side should be quick to judge someone.  You could misinterpret the meaning and miss out on a great potential friendship.  It may take you a while to learn their personality.  I have to say that Mermaid has a fantastically witty personality, so I hope no one judges her too quickly and misses it.  There was a post against her recently, and I thought that person obviously does not get how great and funny she is.  Sometimes the veterans are really trying to help new members learn the ropes (even if the posts appear bossy, elitist, etc).  I personally appreciate people like sydbristow who took the time to send me very thoughtful pms on a matter where she was looking out for people she barely knew.  If she is not kind, I do not know who is.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I have been on BT steadily since 2012. I am not an original BT member like a few others, but I have been on here enough to see how it has grown and changed throughout the years. In the past 6 months, BT has taken a turn for the worse.


When I first started there, there were less people, and some great experts on here to give advice. I know whose posts I would read if I wanted skincare advice or makeup advice, who was really into nail polish, etc. I really looked up to them and respected them both as a person and as a mentor of sorts. I wanted to be like them so I saw how they interacted and gave advice, and I followed in their footsteps because I wanted to be looked up to and respected as well. And that is one thing that I feel like is missing from BT- respect. No one respects anyone anymore.


Now that BT and Sephora are becoming more popular, there is a steady influx of new members all the time. Some are here just to ask basic customer service question or to get an answer for a beauty question that they have and they leave. Others try to make a name for themselves on this community anyway they can. Sometimes it is great- they are participating in threads, giving people their opinion/advice, and slowing building a presence on BT and becoming friends with us. But others have just tried pushing their way to get as many hearts and climb up the titles as fast as they can by asking questions and starting 10 new threads a day, beg for hearts, or try to take over BT anyway they can- whether it be starting a TSB, trying to be in charge of something or other, etc. That isn't the way to do it.


The girls that have been on here for years are now known as the "mean girls", the "clique", the "cat pack" or "the ones who jumped shipped" etc- we have become friends because of this forum. We PM each other- at first talking about makeup and beauty, and slowing building a friendship with them both on BT and on other social media sites. Some have even given out phone numbers to talk on the phone, text, and even meet up in real life. Of course we stick together because we are friends both on the community and in real life. There is no need to think that just because you aren't "one of us" that we are a "clique" excluding you. Reach out to us, talk with us, engage with us! Smiley Very Happy There are no "inside jokes"- there are all jokes that have started on BT. If you don't know what it is, ask, and we will tell you and we would love to have you join in with us with all of the fun! This is a community, not a me versus you mentality, the mean girls versus the nice girls, the old timers versus the newbies. One can't join a forum and expect there not to be already existing friendships between the members and jump to the conclusion that it is a mean girls exclusive clique and immediately on guard to have the me versus them mentality.


The community unfortunately has changed a lot over the past 6 months or so. I feel like the Mods have a very hard job and they can't catch all of the ramblings of the tens of thousands of people on here. Some things are bound to slip past them. However, I find it disheartening that certain members are allowed to say and do whatever they please and they are still on here, whereas a few of the older members have been banned from BT for (in my opinion) doing much less. I wish that the rules/TOS were applied to everyone equally- not arbitrarily picking favorites and letting them get away with just about everything. But yet enforcing the rules on others to the point where they are where they are basically discriminating against a few certain members.


BT used to be a great little community with an amazing group of people that I called my friends. However, this new BT is filled with drama, negativity, and overall just cold hearted and rude people are dominating now. I am not sure what it will take to "bring back the old BT" but I can assure you that it will never be the same again. I think we need bring a sense of community back to BT instead of the whole everyone is out for themselves. I hope it comes back... but that is why I have been on BT less and less- I don't feel the sense of community anymore. No one respects anyone else on here anymore and without respect, it will never be a community.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Well said!

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Very well said Missie! Heart

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I agree with you Missie, the sense of community seems very lacking. Nicely worded.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I started on BT very early on, and it was not the forum it is now. It has gained a lot of momentum and has more members and traffic now, lots of people popping on to see what it's all about. I think overall Sephora is probably more popular and therefore so is BT. So you can't really compare the old BT to our BT today. 


Sometimes I think I'm on a completely different forum when I start to read complaints about special treatment of certain members and all the issues and drama people see happening. I was just thinking to myself last week how enjoyable BT has been lately, with very little drama! I knew some members talked about leaving for another forum or something, and noticed some were not posting, but I did not realize there has been this "mass exodus" until I started seeing it referred to in posts. Unfortunate, but if some members found a better fit for themselves, then that's probably for the best.


I'm happy to see lots of newer members posting positive replies about BT, because there are so many fantastic, "newish" BTers who are taking this forum in a great direction! I love looking at the "What are you wearing today" makeup looks, and there are so many fun topics (Inspiration from Movies, Woman Crush Wednesday, What's your favorite feature?) that people are constantly coming up with lately!  I find the forum to be more creative than ever.


It seems like every 2 months or so, this same topic is discussed. And we all say the same things. Here was my reply last month, and I still stand by it:



Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

We quit posting and started hanging out elsewhere because we got sick and tired of being corrected and treated like children for correcting misinformation. We were treated as the bad guys and the know it all's got praised! The forum may seem drama free because there is no one around to point out when someone is wrong. The forum has taken a new direction, but it's not anything to cheer about. 

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I don't quite understand your statement. "The forum may seem drama free because there is no one around to point out when someone is wrong."  Who is supposed to point out when anyone is wrong, and wrong about what? I don't understand this.  Are you talking about the mods?


As far as the forum taking a new direction, I do think it's something to cheer about. There are a lot of new, friendly faces on BT who are putting lots of work into keeping BT a great community. I'm glad that the Hall of Famers who were unhappy with BT found a place that they are satisfied with and can make their own. They are missed, of course, but everyone deserves to be on a forum where they can have fun. For me, that continues to be BeautyTalk.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Yes there are some great new members and there have been a bunch of new creative topics on BT- however this is a beauty forum, Beauty Talk and that should be the main topic to focus on.


If you have been a long time BT member, you should have noticed the "mass exodus" of 100 or so Hall of Famers. They were the old timers, the ones who were giving the best advice and who were a great group of women that made BT a community to me. Even the newer members have noticed the exodus... not sure how you missed it...


I definitely agree with you Calamity- it seemed like we were treated as the bad guys because we were friends with each other. It was insane how everyone just started thinking that a certain group of posters who have been the long time members of this community was automatically the mean girls and turned against them. Drama started because it was the whole old versus new mentality kicking in. A lot of people got tired of it and left- but it wasn't for the best because BT today is a not anything close to what BT was in its hayday. But you are right, Joeanne, there is no comparing the old BT to what it is today.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

Oh, I noticed some people weren't posting, but I don't keep track of who posts every day, and I'm not on every day. I'm not saying the Hall of Famers who left aren't missed, but if they were unhappy here, then I'm glad they have found a forum that is a better fit for them.


I'm sorry you don't think today's BT can compare to the BT of old. On that subject, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

YES! exactly!! i loved that post, and I love this one!! I don't see a big problem, and if some members are that unhappy with it, they will leave no matter what enyone says. It is what we all make of it, and overall it is a great forum!  Thank you for your well-worded post!

Re: How do you feel about BT lately?

I used to quietly follow the BT boards, searching for answers to all of my questions. I started asking my own questions when the search would come up empty. Everyone was kind and responsive. The HoFers were so smart and sweet. I was able to answer questions and give advice in fields of my strength too. I became enabled and more knowledgeable, plus made friends along the way. I've even had the pleasure of meeting 3 BTers in person, all of whom are amazing people.

Now, I don't feel comfortable asking for advice. I can no longer "Ask the Experts" because they are so scarce here. Giving advice has become more and more fruitless, and I don't do it as often anymore. I hate being so worried that my opinions about eye cream or makeup brushes will offend someone. I'm not sure why anyone would be so offended or outraged by me, but on multiple occasions I have responded to a question and had people reply underneath me with a rant about how wrong I am about a product. To them I say:


Rather than the community warmth I felt when I starting chiming in, I feel coldness and people on-edge, and plenty of people willing to play the victim while being aggressive. Perhaps I just don't belong here anymore.

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