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Things are crazy now. I think we are all trying to stay healthy and maintain sanity as well. I thought I would start this thread so folks can check in and discuss how they're doing. I want all my BIC friends to be okay. I will kick this off with a first post. Take care of yourself lovelies.
@Ispend2much6 Hmm, I need to see the 2 charts in question and the studies they’re attached to. Can you cite the studies? Or drop part of the url to each study? (Leave out the “http” and ".[gov, com, etc.]" but post the rest of the url; it won’t appear as a link on BIC that way.) Before I can really assess a chart’s info, I need to know things like when it was created, how it was created, where’d the data come from (what audience was polled/surveyed, how large was that audience, which demographics were studied, etc.), what variables were and weren’t considered, what were all the conclusions reached by the study, etc.
@WinglessOne @I didn’t say this earlier but thank you for sharing your perspective earlier, especially when you shared personal details about how you connect with this topic. It’s important that we honor and respect people when they share their vulnerability with us like you have. I’m sorry not everyone has been as respectful as they should be, because you deserve better.
@WinglessOne @Oh nooo….sorry this all happened. I hope you are doing a little better now.
@WinglessOne I just spent two hours responding, and I timed out and when I tried to post, authentication failed... I'll be back later.
I'm sorry my question caused you anxiety; I'm not interesting in fighting. I really wanted your opinion because you think through situations thoroughly.
I honestly like to know where people are coming from, whether we agree or not. I have learned a lot from people who are different than me (at church,) and the bonds that are forming are very strong because we are intentional and focused on what we agree on and respect the differences. I'm getting a first-hand education on how pro-life is different from pro-birth, but both are important, to us.
@Ispend2much6 No worries, it wasn’t your question that spiked my anxiety yesterday morning. It was… other discussion further down this thread. I’m fine answering your question.
Also. BIC’s season timeout keeps kicking me too, lately. When I know I’ll have a long reply (which is most times, let’s be honest 😂), I write it in Apple Notes or TextEdit (the Windows Notepad equivalent). Then I copy/paste to BIC. Lately I can’t even type a long response in BIC and copy all (to save to clipboard in case I get timed out) because that makes my post-in-progress disappear.
Sone differences I can respect, or at least tolerate. There are certain things I can’t (bigotry related to race, ethnicity, and sexual preference, for instance; I don’t care how people try to justify that crap, and I’m not nice to them about it) but the abortion topic isn’t one of those. Unless someone says they want a theocratic US based on just one religion (bigotry against other religions and the non-religious) that supposedly bans abortion in all instances. That I’m not cool with. At all.
My two cents @Ispend2much6 , and take it for what you will, I'm not a statistician or an OB/GYN. I wonder how accurate the stats are with the reasoning as to why women are abortions. It's such a taboo thing for so many people that I wonder if the real reasons are being stated. It's so much easier to tell a doc that you want one because you're just not ready to have kids yet, rather than tell them that your boyfriend beats you and would your kid too, you were forced to have relations (apparently I can't use the actual word here) or that your controlling ex would try to control you forever thorough a kid he would have rights to as well. I'm not saying it's right to lie about reasoning to a doctor, but I could see a lot of women who are in bad situations just wanting to end the pregnancy and not need to get into the rest of it at that particular point in their lives. It's such a stressful time for some, maybe they just can't deal with coming forward with other problems in their lives at the same time. Again, just my two cents.
@missjeanie @You hit the nail on the head. I was on a different online forum a few weeks ago and they were discussing the guttmacher studies (hope I got the name right). Some people were very adamant that the study showed people were getting abortions for “no reason”. That was one of the options in the survey — “no reason”. At face value it can be interpreted as “yes, people are getting abortions thoughtlessly” but a more likely scenario is “no reason” is another way to say “not your business”. Someone might also say “no reason” if they had 15 different reasons why but couldn’t pick just one. For example, if you got pregnant due to rap3 by a relative, are you checking the rap3 or the incest box because technically it’s both. But also, like you mentioned, maybe you don’t want to check that on the form.
@missjeanie I know that what you describes happens way too often. It's heartbreaking. The area where I taught school were full of lives under duress of all types.
There are so many people without strong support systems; how much easier it would be to go through tough things when you have people who are committed to your well-being in your life. More women would feel like they have, and actually have, more choices and not have to be stuck in a harmful situation.
@Ispend2much6 I’ll just chime in and say that birth control doesn’t always work. I had a friend who got pregnant because she missed her birth control pill taking by like an hour. She was taking the pill and I guess overslept one day and missed her time to take the pill. Even though she followed up and took it immediately thereafter, she got pregnant. She wasn’t in a position to take of a child financially or emotionally. She tried her best to use contraception but she messed up. I would hate to think the discourse around her reproductive rights being viewed as a “consequence” of her action (messing up her birth control). That’s just not fair to the kid or the mother.
I know somebody with three kids and he says they were all “accidents” but that he took “responsibility for his actions and faced the consequences”. What a horrible way to frame parenthood: a consequence of unprotected sex.
my friend messed up. I don’t know anyone who is perfect, so singling her, and people like her, out for their mistakes does not sit well with me. She went on to have a child with her same partner of several years *after* she finished college.
I was 21 when I learned that certain types of penicillin could mess with pill birth control. I was also 21 when I learned you could get pregnant if you missed your birth control by an hour or more.
with girls starting menses earlier and earlier, it’s hard for me to say a 9 year old, 10 year old, or even 16 year old should be responsible enough to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.
I think the biggest point I’d make is that nobody is using abortion as an alternative to birth control. Abortions are expensive, painful, scary, invasive. If you dislike Pap smears you’re going to hate an abortion.
@Ispend2much6 yep! After I had went to the Dr for the first time and found out I had miscarried, I was immediately scheduled a DNC I think I was around 8-10 weeks, found out my body wasn't producing enough progesterone on it's own to sustain a pregnancy, thank goodness for progesterone that can be prescribed
@lmaster I hear all of these stories, and so many more from others I know. It's heartbreaking. I'm glad you have your babies!
Awww thank you!! I cherish every one of their sweet faces @Ispend2much6 🤗❤️
@Ispend2much6 Or hemorrhaging as we learned the hard way on a flight to Korea. Most traumatic trip ever.
I hope they don’t expect women to actually have an infection before medical intervention.
@heartsmyface I'm glad your (I don't even know what to call it- experience?) had a good outcome!
Like I said, as far as I know, where I am, the dnc's are done routinely after a miscarriage happens, before infection can set in. It's a separate issue from abortion.
@Ispend2much6 first of all, I'm sorry about your miscarriage 😥😘 and you are so right about the remaining tissue pieces in the woman's body...doctors have to "clean" that area very well if you don't want to make an infection starts. I learned about this at nursing school.
@Skunk12puzzola Thank you. Even though it was a long time ago, sometimes, when my family is getting ready to go somewhere, I'll get the feeling that someone is missing and look around for a second before I realize why I felt that way.
But, like with a lot of things, it's good if I don't focus on what I don't have, or else I'll miss out on seeing the good that is here. Now, to apply that to shopping...
@Ispend2much6 Awww love that’s heartbreaking. I just want to hug you. Yeah focusing on what you have is helpful but the sadness creeps in and throws you off when you least expect it.
@heartsmyface So true. Grief of any sort will do that, as sadly you know too well.
@itscarin Also, my heart hurts that you went through that being glad that was an option for you.
I don’t see why anyone should have to choose between sharing physical pleasure and rights to their body. It’s no longer sharing yourself at that point. You’re giving yourself and your rights away if you want intimacy.
I’m most concerned about physical violence on women who become pregnant there now cause this also entraps partners. DV is already the leading cause of maternal death in the US so I don’t see how this ‘saves lives’
@itscarin Shaming people for not being loud on an issue is just plain wrong. I somewhat see their intent yet at the same time it’s ignorant and insulting. A lot of people are silently helping because it’s what’s right and, depending on what kind of help they’re providing, it can be of personal risk. Silence isn’t indifference. It CAN be but it’s not black and white like that.