RANDOM THOUGHTS : BEAUTY (PART DEUX)

[jemly]

welcome back to the junk drawer of random beauty thoughts and musings. it has been nearly a year, so i think it is time for a rew RT thread ! 

when i'm doing my makeup in the morning, my dog sometimes throws a fit until i move his food bowl over to where i'm sitting. i'm certainly not the diva in our relationship.

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THE QUESTIONS THREAD:  http://community.sephora.com/t5/Products/The-Question-Thread-Because-not-all-questions-need-their-ow...

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[Anonymous]

Spoiler

I think it depends on...how your daughter thinks. My mom always, always, said I'm charming, pretty, and beautiful...so I always think I'm good.

I think the source of all this problems is "comparison". I instead think of it as something absolute, not comparative, and never had huge insecurity over how I look since I simply can think I'm all good looking without feeling obligated to meet someone else's (or the society's) standards (not to say I'm completely free of it; we can't be completely free of all that I think), or to look better than the others.

For example, when I put on makeup, I only need to look good to me, and maybe better than my bare face, but never need to look better than someone else. I don't compete at all. I honestly don't understand all the competition or rivalry. 

I, obviously, do care about how I look, but that's largely to be self-content, not to be appealing to anyone else...That made my life easier. 

What I really value, anyway, is not "prettiness". I value grace, intellectuality, kindness, generous and considerate mind, genuine character, attitude, confidence, etc. Those are irrelevant to some pretty face. That kinda made me focus more on broad aspects, not just the way I look. 

What has been tricky in my life is the ambivalence I feel when the "appearance" offers me some "benefits". By taking advantage of it, I feel like I'm cheating; I'm a traitor. I know it's not my everything. But still, I get that uneasy feeling, but I guess that's just an inevitable part of living in a society. 

Overall, even I don't know what I'm saying 😛 

[meganlisa]

@Anonymous I get what you're saying.  And I think you're right to focus on qualities we can control (grace) and not what we can't (basic looks).

The benefits relate to a comment below, about the awkwardness of saying "thank you" for something that really has nothing to do with what we have done.

Interesting issues, tough.  Appreciate the perspectives though.  They help!

[Anonymous]

I just get really wowed by someone so graceful (or intellectual, etc.), but not by someone who's pretty!

[meganlisa]

So agree with that!!!

[etscore1]

@meganlisa Does she bring up the subject of her looks (or any of the other sensitive subjects you mentioned)?

[meganlisa]

@etscore1 Occasionally.  She sometimes brings up sensitive subjects...then glosses over them.  Her looks less so, but that is in part me.

[etscore1]

@meganlisa Definitely teenager-y to bring up something they've been thinking about then not want to get into the in-depth conversation that can result - particularly with parents. I think as long as she knows that you're available if she ever needs to talk about anything -which inevitably illicits the typical 'Maaaaahm... I knoooow!' But even with that response, it will eventually resonate with her, and the next time she starts thinking about something and wonders if she should bring it up to you - that's when comments like that will pop into her head, and exactly when you need them to. 

Do you think she's insecure about how she looks? Or is it maybe more along the lines of your motherly instincts kicking in and trying to preemptively protect her?

[meganlisa]

@etscore1 more motherly instincts.  She navigates a tough path and is, thankfully, a together girl.  But it's such a tough age.  And she is asking subtle questions, about life.

I just want to do the right thing, regarding appearance and all else.  Might as well tap the minds of other women, right?

Thanks!

[fatimamummy]

@meganlisa, My daughter is  just 11 but I understand what you are talking about. She has beautiful features and though I don't go out of way to tell her but I admire her at certain things, like it is a new blouse/dress, I tell her she looks pretty in it. If it is something doesn't look nice on her again I tell her it looks ok but the other one looked perfect on her and urge her to try what I know will suit her better. If you know what I mean? So instead of telling her straight what doesn't work for her choose your wording carefully. 

 Instead of making it a discussion topic , guide her subtly like don't tell her what is not good in looks and otherwise instead steer her attention towards her plus points. I would say beauty and brain both have their own value there is no comparison . At this age what my focus is that she develops firm habit of keeping herself neat and clean? 

If you want your daughter to wear some makeup, I think best starting point is to offer her your stuff like " you know I buy this lipstick because I thought it will look wonderful on you" instead of telling her , she should wear a lipstick. 

 There is no possible way to tell her she is not gorgeous without hurting her feelings. The only safe way is to focus on her high points when it is about the looks. At the same time I know no one want their kid to grow up thinking looks are every thing so according to her age and her aptitude you can discuss her strengths and weaknesses say in her academics and that is much more easier that talking about looks. Hope it helps

[meganlisa]

It does help!  We all have a mix of things going for us and my daughter has a lot.  But sometimes during the teen years appearance is too important, especially where I am (and money, but that's a different conversation).  I want her confident in who she is and not wanting to be someone she isn't...

[frametheface]

Something that might be able to (tactfully) bring this general subject up is talking to your daughter about how society views women (and what society expects of women). She's at the age where she might mentally "know" a lot of things, but it can be hard to reconcile "know" with what you feel. I can tell you that, from teaching that age group, there's often a lack of safe spaces where girls, especially, can sit down and talk out/feel out how they process their perspective on society.

(Spoiler tag for length, oops.)

Spoiler

For example - when a guy hits on her/asks her out, girls are coded/conditioned to say "thank you for the interest, but - (rejection)". We're taught to say "thank you" for things that we didn't solicit and don't really want. It's very weird. The same thing goes with things like unsolicited (and oftentimes, very invasive) compliments. It might not be full-on catcalling/harassment, but things like "wow, sexy" can be really hard for teenage girls to navigate.

If you can bring this topic up (there's an article somewhere written by a mother of a young girl who struggled when her child didn't say "thank you" to physical compliments, only to realize that her daughter's perspective was "They're complimenting me on things I had no input on, which is pointless - instead of complimenting what I have no control over, why can't they compliment me on what I am?" that might be helpful perspective) there's room to navigate a little more freely in terms of "What does society consider beautiful vs what do you consider most striking about yourself?" 

It's a challenge. But it's clear you support your daughter, and while this is a tricky conversation, it is typically (in the broader sense) generally worth having. There's a lot of weight in knowing that yes, you look one way. Yes, society places high value on people who look another way. No, this has absolutely nothing to do with your personal value. That said, this is a total quagmire if your daughter feels like this conversation is "coming at her" - typically, when parents ask me for advice on stuff like this, I recommend starting with a more generic "society at large" perspective - and then ask her! Chances are, she's thought a lot about this on her own, and she could very well surprise you with what she's figured out. 

[etscore1]

I agree with SO much of this. You're never going to be able to prevent every crisis from popping up, or put out every fire before it happens, but when kids (both boys and girls) have healthy perspectives in a broader sense, they're much better equipped to handle smaller situational challenges that inevitably arise on a daily basis. 

[meganlisa]

That makes a lot of sense. Much as I "know" better, I sometimes feel like when I broach sensitive subjects I come at it from a lecture perspective and not one that will draw out her/their thoughts.

In some ways, it seems girls are respected for more than when I was her age.  But it's still so tough.  

I like the point about what we're conditioned to say thanks for hearing.  There is a disconnect.

[frametheface]

Creating conversation space (especially as a parent, to a child) is very hard. In my mid twenties I have a great relationship with my mother, but it took a long time to figure out how to communicate in a way that opened up the floor for both of us to share our thoughts and feelings. That said, I'm always (very pleasantly) surprised by the depth and breadth of thought and insight that teenagers have when I say "Well, how do you feel about ___" or "what do you think about ___"? 

Spoiler

Using those types of questions and a larger context to frame this sort of thing (what you look like shouldn't dictate your value but the reality is there are places where it matters, and that's terrible, so how do we fix that/address it/confront it/navigate it) can open up the floor to let them share their thoughts and feelings, and if you practice this sort of communication on "hard conversations" in the long run it typically pays off as kids feel they have the ability to actually share these things with you.

So hard, though. Navigating society as a teenager is hard enough - but I really do feel for girls. There's so many conflicting influences - there's a young model who was talking about the power (and the right) to say no. The different thoughts towards sexuality and sexiness. It's really infuriating. It has come a long way (even in the last fifteen years) but even though society seems to be making great strides, at the same time, society has also opened up avenues for new (and ever more creative) forms of bullying, harassment, and derogatory language. 😐 It's a mixed bag. 

But ultimately, I can say that kids who come from supportive families and have people in their lives who want to help them navigate these channels, regardless of how easy or hard it might be for parents to figure out how, typically do pretty okay. There's a lot to be said for consistently relaying to your kid that you're there for them, you support them, and you believe in them. It really does make a difference.

[meganlisa]

It's so hard to have these conversations.  Looks, the future, drugs, boys...college, driving...

But at least I try. At this point my kids, both very good kids, are starting to push boundaries and decide whom they want to be.  How to guide them?  Ask a lot of advice!!!

I appreciate it.  You're closer to the trenches than I am.  Sometimes I feel like I'm my mother and talking to them.  But..I hope that working at it does pay off.

Growing up is so hard!  Even watching it!

[theramenlover]

Hm, as the others have said, this is a tough topic. I have a set of Chinese parents that have always been very vocal, and not in a positive way, about my looks. It's always about comparison and how I could do better, both physically and not. I think it's most important for you to let her know that her physical looks is like makeup, it's best used to enhance what's already there, i.e. her personality and her intelligence, and not the end all.

Of course, it's important to be healthy and be fit as well but at the end of the day, even personally, we don't just want pretty friends, we want people who will ride hard with us through it all so perhaps just remind her that she really is more than just her looks or that she isn't just her looks either. I don't think just saying it in a conversation would work (although I'm not a parent so if it does work, I'm sorry!) but rather occasional and constant compliments might work better. I think you'll be fine though because from what I've read and seen (from your YT channel!), you create a loving environment for your child where she knows she's appreciated not just because she's pretty but because of who she is as a whole.

[meganlisa]

Thanks for saying that about the environment I create.  I really try.  But sometimes the outside influences can be overwhelming.  This topic is a tough one for me.

Obviously, I love my kids as they are.  But not everyone will.  And imagine being a teenager again!  Appreciate the input.

[Libellules]

@meganlisa As a daughter who has had parents make comments on my looks (gently and not gently) there isn't really a good way. At least not uninvited. 

Has as she said anything to you or asked anything? Has she expressed concern to you about anything?

[meganlisa]

No, she doesn't say much.  But I'm not exactly balanced on this front and I worry about how that impacts her.  How to address it...?

[Libellules]

Honestly @meganlisa, I wouldn't address anything that requires criticism / advice that is specifically about her unless she asks. Talking about society and women in media is one thing. But pointing out anything g about her, even though you think you're trying to help her, is likely to result in a blowup. 

[meganlisa]

@Libellules That's a tough one. On appearance I try to be sensitive but I do need to sit through countless outfits and feedback (which she does to herself).  It's so hard!!!!