theramenlover

NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

Hey guys! I know that there's a number of BTers here that were super amped and pumped up for the new NARS collection with Guy Bourdin so I just wanted to talk about this with everyone. 

 

I'm a huge, huge, huge NARS fan and I was completely excited, and even had a few items on my list to buy but after I saw a few reviews of the collection, I've personally decided not to support/buy anything from this limited edition release. 

 

I haven't heard about the controversy surrounding Guy Bourdin before so I'm willing to bet that most of you here haven't either. I didn't even think to research him when I heard about the release but I think that as a woman, it's important to be aware of things like this. 

 

It's honestly too long of a topic to post about but in short, Guy Bourdin was a very popular and controversial photographer that in his portfolio, includes photos that glamorize violence against women. 

 

Temptalia posted a much longer entry about it that I suggest you all read! I can't link to it as per rules but I hope you guys check it out. Again, personally, I won't be buying and I just wanted to let you guys in on this :smileysad: It's up to you whether you still wish to purchase or not! I'm creating this topic in hopes of causing any issues but to raise awareness! 

MaKmommy

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

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Aside from artistic interpretation of his work, his wife and 2 of his girlfriends committed suicide and he is well known for being demanding and treating the models that worked for him cruelly.  While art can be subjective, treatment of others is not.

bratknits

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

I really take issue with blaming someone for another person's suicide and don't think if we were talking about a female artist with 2 boyfriends that killed themselves the same things would be being said.  The man certainly had issues, many artists do, and it's not uncommon for people with issues to be attracted to one another and feed into each other's problems.  That doesn't automatically place all the blame on one party when the other makes a bad, even fatal, choice.  Joan Rivers' is well known for being difficult to work with in a creative profession and cheated on her husband several times, her husband killed himself, would you blame her for his choice?

MaKmommy

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

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I should have been more clear in my post.  I thought it was odd that his wife and 2 girlfriends committed suicide.  While we all might know someone who has committed suicide I've never heard of 3 of one man's partners, ALL committing suicide.  Just odd.  My comment about his treatment of others was regarding the models who posed for him and his well known maltreatment and cruelty toward them.  

Missie772

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

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@MaKmommy- my exboyfriend's mom had her high school boy best friend commit suicide with her in the house, her first and second husband commit suicide as well. Creepy and odd...

bratknits

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

It's odd because it's not true.  There were whispers about the wife but she had a serious heart condition so it was just speculation.  One girlfriend attempted suicide and survived.  One girlfriend did kill herself in the early eighties.  Of course some people never let the truth get in the way of a good story.  It gets repeated over and over again until people believe it.  This is particularly true in the internet age because people really think wikipedia is a legitimate source of information.

rikkie

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

You mean random unattributed comments on a site anyone can edit aren't the best sources?? :smileytongue: 

bratknits

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

[ Edited ]

I saw someone use InfoWars as a legitimate source of information on the Fukushima radiation levels.  My head nearly exploded.  People also no longer seem to know the difference between news and analysis/opinion, drives me right up the wall.

arielaaaaaaaa

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

Lol Rikkie! You always crack me up :smileytongue:

rikkie

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

It baffles me that some people need to be told they can't cite Wikipedia as a source for papers and things in universities! Yikes! :smileyhappy:

Meg82

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

I think people would criticize a woman who had multiple partners who killed themselves.  People love to blame women for stuff like that.

 

I agree with you that blaming people for other people's suicides is a serious problem.  I think that kind of blaming is incredibly hurtful for people who have family/friends who have killed themselves.  Also, as a person who has come very close to suicide many times, I can tell you that it's not about the people who are around you. It's hard to articulate what it is about exactly, but it's not the people around you.  And if you think I am the only suicidal person who thinks that, every hospital program I've been in has been unanimous in that belief.

garnett

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

Hey Meg,

You are so real about life and everything you go through. I really appreciate that about you.   I agree with panage2000- I am really glad that you are here with us today.  Peace be with you and around you today and always. :smileyhappy:

 

panage2000

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

Well I am glad you are here with us today :smileyhappy: 

 

anaa

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

Meg82 since I replied to your deleted post and my response is still there, it makes me look kind of dumb.  I still feel the same way about this issue, and having done some reading about this photographer it seems pretty well documented that he was abusive to the women in his personal life as well as to the models he worked with.  I don't like bullies whether they are using the guise of being brilliant artists or not.  I wouldn't give Nars a dime for a collection honoring someone like this. ( I actually stopped buying Nars stuff a while ago because they contain parabens, and the lipstick lasts like 10 minutes, so I am happily purchasing Bite now.)  Meg, your post was dead on in my opinion and I'm sorry it's gone. 

Meg82

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

[ Edited ]

Is my original reply to this post invisible to everyone or just me?  Did it get deleted? If so, why?

rikkie

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

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Odd, I don't see it either?

Meg82

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

i know i posted it because someone replied, which weirdly you can still see.

 

I wonder if I unknowingly broke some rule and the mods deleted it?  I would like to know what the rule is in that case.

rikkie

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

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Perhaps they want to avoid mention of violent sexual assault? I believe you talked about [that r word] culture, right? I think it was a more than valid part of this conversation, but maybe the mods need to remove references like that in case it is difficult to see for people who have been assaulted?

Meg82

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

That makes sense.  Also, looking back, I think I used a word that could be fairly controversial, though I can't remember if that word made it to the final draft.

 

Both of those things would be legit reasons to delete, but I wish I'd gotten a pm saying it was happening, or a chance to edit it to make it more appropriate.

 

If a mod could pm me about this I'd really appreciate it.

nakedlunch212

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

I admit that I was taken aback when I discovered this collaboration had morphed into a controversy. I read Temptalia's commentary. Although I respect her views, I vehemently disagree.

 

Art is very personal and highly subjective. It's difficult to judge what has value and what doesn't particularly where controversial images are concerned. I was familiar with Bourdin's work prior to this collection. He has created some disturbing, macabre images, but I personally find his overall body of work striking, intriguing, and beautiful.

 

It really is a matter of personal preference. I can understand someone's distaste over the photos or assertions that this somehow normalizes or glamorizes violence towards women (which, by the way, I couldn't disagree with more and I would contend that our **bleep** culture is more to blame for perpetuating violence against women than a few pictures, but that's another argument for a more appropriate forum), my appreciation for them does not make me a perverse, violent-prone, anti-woman deviant either. Therefore, it stands to reason that his being a fan of Bourdin's work is NOT indicative of Nars's moral compass or lack thereof.

 

As I was reading through the comments, I was getting hints and an outright sense of moral indignation and condemnation, and while everyone has a right to boycott this collection or NARS as a whole, it's also my right to be a fan of Bourdin's work sans the judgment. The respect in this discourse goes both ways.

rikkie

Re: NARS x Guy Bourdin Issues

Very well put. I don't love every picture he produced, but that has more to do with my taste in specific colors and composition or even just disliking a model's hair in some cases. Some of his pictures I'd put up in my house if I had a nice print of them. 

 

I think that good art will inspire the strongest feelings, sometimes they're good feelings, sometimes they're not. If a horror movie leaves you feeling warm and fuzzy at the end, they didn't do it right. And if you like watching them it doesn't mean you support serial killers, or any sort of violence necessarily.

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